> >> NOW TO A MEDICAL MILESTONE.

IN A CLINICAL TRIAL, A VACCINE DEVELOPED BY DRUG COMPANIES MERCK AND MODERNA HAS SHOWN PROMISING RESULTS IN PREVENTING MELANOMA, WHICH IS A TYPE OF SKIN CANCER, FROM RETURNING.

IT RELIES ON mRNA TECHNOLOGY, THE SAME KIND USED IN COVID JABS, AND IT'S THE FIRST TIME IT'S BEEN REPURPOSED TO TREAT CANCER.

SCIENTISTS SAY THIS PROVES THAT PERSONALIZED CANCER VACCINES CAN WORK.

NOUBAR AFEYAN IS THE CO-FOUNDER AND CHAIRMAN OF MODERNA AND HE TELLS WALTER ISAACSON WHAT THIS BREAKTHROUGH MEANS.

>> THANK YOU, CHRISTIANE.

AND NOUBAR AFEYAN, WELCOME BACK TO THE SHOW.

>> GREAT TO BE HERE, THANK YOU.

>> EARLIER THIS MONTH, ALONG WITH THE PHARMACEUTICAL MAKER MERCK, YOUR COMPANY MODERNA ANNOUNCED A NEW TYPE OF TREATMENT FOR MELANOMA CANCER, AN mRNA VACCINE.

EXPLAIN TO ME HOW THAT WORKS ON MELANOMA.

>> SURE.

WELL, I THINK THAT MOST PEOPLE WILL HAVE HEARD ABOUT mRNA VACCINES IN THE CONTEXT OF COVID.

SINCE THEN, THERE HAVE BEEN ADDITIONAL RESPIRATORY VACCINES IN FLU THAT HAS BEEN DEVELOPED AS WELL AS A DISEASE CALLED RSV.

SO THAT TECHNOLOGY IS BROADLY OUT THERE.

WHAT PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE IS THAT ACTUALLY LONG BEFORE THE COVID PANDEMIC HAPPENED, MODERNA HAD BEEN WORKING ON USING THIS TECHNOLOGY TO TUNE THE IMMUNE SYSTEM TO FIGHT BACK AGAINST CANCERS.

AND TO DO SO INDIVIDUALLY, ONE PATIENT AT A TIME.

BY TAKING THE SEQUENCE OF THE PATIENT'S OWN DNA AND IDENTIFYING CERTAIN MUTATIONS THAT COULD THEN BE THE BASIS FOR A TREATMENT WHERE THE IMMUNE SYSTEM RECOGNIZES THESE TO BE THREATS AND GOES AFTER THEM.

>> SO THE MESSENGER RNA, THAT'S WHAT RNA IS.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> IS ABLE TO TAKE THE INFORMATION ABOUT THE TUMOR'S DNA, THE PATIENT'S DNA, AND BUILD A LITTLE FACSIMILE PROTEIN IN THE CELL OF THE PATIENT.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

THAT'S RIGHT.

IN FACT, WHAT'S REALLY AMAZING IS WE STARTED THIS PROJECT ABOUT TEN YEARS AGO.

AND THERE WAS NOTHING TO PRECEDENT THIS BECAUSE NOBODY COULD TAKE THIS KIND OF INFORMATION AND STITCH TOGETHER SOMETHING UP TO 34 DIFFERENT WHAT'S CALLED NEOANTIGENS, NEW MUTATED VERSIONS OF LITTLE PEPTIDES.

AND WHEN YOU STITCH THEM TOGETHER AND PUT THEM INTO AN LMP PARTICLE, WHEN YOU THEN INJECT THAT INTO A PATIENT, THE PATIENT THEN TAKES THIS CODE, PRESENTS IT ON IF SURFACE OF CELLS THAT ARE TRAINED TO THEN ENGAGE THE IMMUNE SYSTEM, AND THE IMMUNE SYSTEM NOW SAYS WELL, I GOT GO AFTER THESE FOREIGN THINGS.

AND THE ONLY PLACE IN THE BODY WHERE THESE FOREIGN THINGS EXIST ESSENTIALLY IS ON THE TUMOR.

SO THE T-CELLS THEN HAVE FULL LICENSE TO GO AND FIND SPECIFIC T-CELLS FOR THAT PATIENT ALONE.

THE REASON IT'S CALLED A VACCINE IS THAT IT IS EVOKING THE IMMUNE RESPONSE.

BUT TRUTH BE TOLD, A VACCINE USUALLY HAS COME TO MEAN A PROPHYLACTIC APPROACH WHICH IS TO PREVENT THE DISEASE.

IN THIS CASE, IT IS A TREATMENT.

SO WE PREFER CALLING IT A INDIVIDUALIZED NEOANTIGEN THERAPY FOR CANCER.

BUT THE PRINCIPLE IS THE SAME.

AND THAT IS LET THE IMMUNE SYSTEM DO THE WORK.

JUST GIVE IT INSTRUCTIONS.

>> AND YOU SAY IT'S PERSONALIZED.

DOES THAT MEAN EVERY PERSON'S TUMOR IS DIFFERENT AND YOU MAKE A NEW DRUG FOR EACH PERSON?

>> INDEED.

THAT'S A REMARKABLE THING.

IT'S A VERY --IT'S A PRODUCT OF THE TYPE OF COMPUTATION APPROACHES WE DEVELOPED OVER THE YEARS, THE AUTOMATION WE HAVE.

SUCH THAT WE CAN WITHIN WEEKS OF GETTING A PATIENT'S SEQUENCE, JUST LIKE WE DID IN THE CASE OF COVID, WITHIN WEEKS WE TURNED AROUND WITH A VACCINE WE CAN TEST, THIS IS DONE NOW FOR INDIVIDUAL CANCER PATIENTS.

WE KNOW, THE FIELD KNOWS THAT EVERY SINGLE PERSON'S CANCER ACCUMULATES DIFFERENT MUTATIONS AND IT'S VERY SPECIFIC TO THAT PERSON.

NOW WE HAVE LOTS OF CANCER TREATMENTS THAT DON'T GO AFTER THE SPECIFICITY.

THEY GO AFTER THE GENERAL TYPE OF TUMOR.

AND WHAT THIS ONE DOES IS TO SAY NO, NO, I'M GOING TO MAKE YOUR BODY MAKE A DEFENSE SYSTEM AGAINST YOUR TUMOR AND BOOST THE IMMUNE SYSTEM'S ABILITY TO RECOGNIZE AND THEN ATTACK.

AND THE REASON, WALTER, THIS WAS A TRIAL DONE IN PARTNERSHIP WITH MERCK, AND THE WHOLE PROGRAM IS, IS BECAUSE MERCK IS A LEADER IN A COMPLIMENTARY APPROACH THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN IN THE MARKETS FOR MANY YEARS WHICH IS A PRODUCT CALLED KEYTRUDA.

AND THESE THINGS ARE A DIFFERENT APPROACH USING ANTIBODIES THAT ESSENTIALLY CREATE THE RIGHT ENVIRONMENT AROUND THE TUMOR SUCH THAT A T-CELL CAN GO AND DO ITS JOB.

SO PREVIOUSLY, BEFORE KEYTRUDA, WHAT'S CALLED AN ANTI-PD 1 ANTIBODY WAS IN THE MARKET.

IT HAS HAD A TREMENDOUS EFFECT ON MANY, MANY CANCERS.

TUMORS ESSENTIALLY PUT OUT SIGNALS THAT KEPT T-CELLS AT BAY.

THE INVENTIONS OF REALLY VERY, VERY BRIGHT SCIENTISTS FIGURED OUT THAT IF YOU COULD SUPPRESS THAT BRAKE SIGN, T-CELLS CAN GET IN.

NOW THE QUESTION IS HOW DOES THE T-CELL KNOW WHAT TO GO AFTER.

WE NOW CAME IN WITH A BOOST OF THAT AND SHOWED IN PHASE III TRIALS, THAT'S WHAT WAS ANNOUNCED A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO, THAT WE COULD SHOW STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENTS IN THE RECURRENCE-FREE SURVIVAL IN LATE STAGE MELANOMA PATIENTS WHICH IS VERY ENCOURAGING.

>> JUST THE MAKE SURE EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS, THE T-CELL, IT MEANS YOU'RE USING AN IMMUNE SYSTEM TO TRY TO KILL THAT CANCEROUS CELL, AND YOU'RE PROGRAMING THAT IMMUNE SYSTEM FOR THAT PARTICULAR CANCER CELL.

IS THAT APPROXIMATELY RIGHT?

.

THAT IS VERY CORRECT.

AND IN FACT WHAT'S REALLY REMARKABLE IS THAT IN OUR BODIES, THESE T-CELLS, AND THERE ARE MANY KINDS OF THEM, PARTICULARLY KILLER T-CELLS DO THIS PROFESSIONALLY THROUGHOUT OUR LIVES.

OVER TIME, OVER AGE AND AS OUR IMMUNE SYSTEMS SOMETIMES ALSO WEAKENS, SOMETIMES THE CANCER ESSENTIALLY CAN FIGURE OUT WAYS TO EVADE THE IMMUNE DETECTION AND THEN IT BECOMES A BATTLE BETWEEN THE CANCER AND OUR IMMUNE SYSTEM.

THAT'S ALWAYS BEEN THE KIND OF THE WAY CANCERS ULTIMATELY PREVAIL.

IF WE CAN GIVE OUR IMMUNE SYSTEM A BOOST AND A DIRECTION TO GO AFTER THAT CANCER, WE THINK THAT WE CAN REALLY PROVIDE THE TYPE OF IMPROVED PERFORMANCE THAT COULD LEAD TO MANY CANCERS BEING HELD BACK.

>> YOUR mRNA WE JUST TALKED ABOUT HAS DONE A TREATMENT FOR MELANOMA.

THERE'S ANOTHER ONE THAT CAME OUT THAT DID PANCREATIC CANCER NOT TOO LONG AGO.

WHAT OTHER CANCERS ARE WE GOING TO SEE BEING TREATED BY mRNA TECHNOLOGY?

>> SO THE PANCREATIC CANCER ONE, WALTER, YOU'RE REFERRING TO IS AN EXCITING DEVELOPMENT BY ANOTHER TECHNOLOGY COMPANY WAS A SMALL MOLECULE DRUG NOT USING RNA, BUT IT WAS AN EFFECTIVE TREATMENT FOR A SUPER PROBLEMATIC CANCER IN PANCREATIC.

THERE IS A LOT OF HOPE THERE AND IT WAS APPROVED A DRUG JUST A WEEK OR SO AGO FINALIZED APPROVAL.

WE OURSELVES ARE WORKING TOGETHER WITH OUR PARTNERS AT MERCK ON MULTIPLE OTHER FORMS OF CANCER.

FOR EXAMPLE, A SMALL CELL LUNG CANCER.

WE'RE WORKING ON BLADDER CANCER, WE'RE WORKING ON KIDNEY CANCER.

AND THESE ARE --MANY OF THESE ARE LATE- STAGE TRIALS THAT WE EXPECT WILL BEGIN TO READ OUT OVER THE COMING SIX MONTHS TO A YEAR TIME FRAME.

AND THAT WILL BE INTERESTING BECAUSE IF WE CAN SHOW AN EFFECTIVENESS IMPROVEMENT OVER THE STATE-OF-THE-ART, THEN PEOPLE WILL BEGIN TO REALIZE WHAT WE HOPE TO SHOW WHICH IS THAT THE SAME MECHANISM OF IDENTIFYING A SEQUENCE, TELLING THE IMMUNE SYSTEM TO GO AFTER IT WILL POTENTIALLY BE BENEFICIAL IN MULTIPLE KINDS OF CANCER.

SO WE HAVE TO GENERATE THE DATA.

BUT AS WE DO, WE'LL LEARN MORE.

EACH ONE OF THESE TEACHES US WHAT ABOUT THE ACTUAL SEQUENCES MAKES THEM MORE OR LESS IMMUNOGENIC, MORE OR LESS EFFECTIVE.

SO AS IN ANY MEDICAL RESEARCH WORLD THAT WE'RE GOING THROUGH, BUT YES, WE ARE WORKING ON.

AND THERE WILL BE AN EXPANSION OF THESE NO DOUBT AS THE FIRST WAVE OF DATA CAME OUT IN A VERY CONFIRMATORY WAY.

>> HISTORIANS ARE GOING TO LOOK BACK ON THIS PERIOD AND SAY THERE WERE TWO HUGE TRANSFORMATIVE TECHNOLOGIES.

THE FIRST BEING BASICALLY A BIOTECHNOLOGY, ESPECIALLY GENE EDITING AND USE OF RNA.

THE SECOND ONE, OF COURSE, BEING ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE, AI.

SO WHAT EXTENT DID AI PLAY A NECESSARY ROLE IN DEVELOPING THIS?

>> WELL, VERY MUCH SO.

WE HAVE BEEN PIONEERS IN THE APPLICATION OF AI, YET THE DEVELOPMENT OF ANOTHER MODEL FOR MANY, MANY YEARS.

AS YOU KNOW, WALTER, BIOLOGY AS A FIELD IS RICH WITH DATA.

THE LARGE LANGUAGE MODELS WERE TRAINED ON INTERNET- BASED THINGS THAT HUMANS HAVE CREATED.

IN BIOLOGY, WE HAVE THE HISTORY OF EVOLUTION TO THANK FOR OUR A MASSIVE AMOUNT OF DIFFERENT FORMS OF PROTEINS AND DNA AND DIFFERENT MOLECULES.

SO ALL THAT DATA IS A VERY RICH ENVIRONMENT IN WHICH WE CAN DEVELOP MODELS.

YOU MIGHT SAY WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH OUR PARTICULAR THERAPEUTIC.

AND THE ANSWER IS IN THE BACKDROP OF THREE BILLION BASES, YOU HAVE IN ANY GIVEN PERSON HUNDREDS, THOUSANDS MAYBE MORE OF MUTATIONS THAT ARE RELEVANT IN PARTICULAR CANCER.

IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO DETECT WHICH ONES OF THOSE WILL BE EFFECTIVE SIGNALS FOR THE IMMUNE SYSTEM TO EFFECTIVELY GO AFTER A CANCER, YOU NEED TO TRAIN MODELS.

AND WE'VE DONE SO FOR A LONG, LONG TIME.

THESE MODELS ARE GETTING BETTER AND BETTER WITH THE NEW GENERATION OF AI.

SO AI HAS BEEN AN INTEGRAL PART OF THIS DEVELOPMENT, BUT FOR THAT MATTER, EXCITINGLY, ALL THE OTHER THINGS THAT WILL COME OUT OF THIS MODALITY.

WE CALL THIS, WALTER WE HAVE FOR YEARS, PROGRAMMABLE MEDICINES.

SO MEDICINES HAVE ALWAYS BEEN IDIOSYNCRATIC ONE-OFF THINGS, A CHEMICAL, A PROTEIN.

BUT WE KNOW THAT IN OUR BODIES THE CODE OF LIFE, DNA TRANSLATED TO --TRANSCRIBED TO RNA, THESE ARE CODE MOLECULES.

AND WE'VE LONG THOUGHT IF WE COULD CAPTURE THE ESSENCE OF HOW THE CODES ARE WORKING AND REPRODUCE IT IN AN AUTOMATED WAY TO MAKE SPECIFIC EFFECTIVE TREATMENTS, THAT'S A WHOLE NEW ERA IN MEDICINE.

AND SO WHEN AI AND THIS BIOLOGY GENETIC MEDICINES SAY PROGRAMMABLE MEDICINE WORLD CONVERSIONS, WE ARE QUITE EXCITED ABOUT WHAT WE CAN DO.

NOT ONLY, BY THE WAY, IN CANCER, BUT IN AUTOIMMUNE DISEASE WHERE THESE APPROACHES ARE ADVANCING.

WHERE THE IMMUNE SYSTEM TURNS AGAINST THE PERSON'S OWN PHYSIOLOGY, WE'D LIKE TO VERY PRECISELY BE ABLE TO DETUNE THAT.

WE'RE LEARNING WAYS 20 DO THAT.

WE HAVE CLINICAL TRIALS THAT ARE BEGINNING TO START.

SO THIS IS A WHOLE NEW PERIOD OF MATCHING COMPLEXITY TO FIGHT BACK AGAINST COMPLEXITY.

>> EXPLAIN TO ME THE NEW mRNA VACCINE YOU'RE GOING TO DO FOR FLU THAT'S GOING TO BE RELEASED NEXT WEEK.

HOW IS THAT DIFFERENT FROM THE REGULAR FLU VACCINE THAT I COULD GET OTHERWISE.

>> WELL, LOOK, THE REGULAR FLU VACCINES THAT ARE AVAILABLE TYPICALLY ARE EITHER BASICALLY PROTEINS THAT ARE MADE USING EGGS.

THIS IS AN OLD, OLD TECHNOLOGY, BUT A RELIABLE ONE.

AND SO THEREFORE PEOPLE -- THERE IS AN EXPRESSION OF THE PROTEIN, THE ACTUAL ANTIGENS YOU WANT TO INTRODUCE INTO THE BODY, PURIFIED, CONVERTED INTO A VIAL AND GIVEN.

THIS IS A PROTEIN- BASED VACCINE.

THERE IS ALSO OTHER VACCINES THAT ARE MADE IN OTHER SYSTEMS THAT ARE WHAT'S CALLED EXPRESSED OR USING TRADITIONAL RECOMBINANT DNA TECHNOLOGIES.

THOSE ARE THE CURRENT STATE-OF-THE-ART AND THEY'VE BEEN AROUND FOR A VERY, VERY LONG TIME.

WE ARE DOING THE SAME THING, BUT WITH RNA.

WHERE WE TAKE AN RNA SPECIFIC THROUGH THE PARTICULAR STRAINS OF FLU THAT ARE PREVALENT AND CREATE AN COCKTAIL THAT IS DELIVERED MUCH LIKE THE OTHER APPLICATIONS OF mRNA, AND SAME IMMUNE RESPONSE, BUT NOW GOING AFTER DIFFERENT MESSAGES, DIFFERENT TARGETS ALLOW US TO COMBAT THE SEASONAL FLU.

WHILE WE'RE AT IT, I SHOULD MENTION WE'VE ALSO BEEN WORKING ON A POTENTIAL PANDEMIC FLU STRAIN.

AS YOU KNOW, H5N1 IS A HIGHLY PROBLEMATIC BIRD FLU THAT'S BEEN CAUSING HAVOC IN MANY DIFFERENT ANIMAL SPECIES.

NOT YET AS MUCH IN HUMANS, BUT IT COULD -- IT IS A THREAT.

SO WE ARE AS WELL USING THE TECHNOLOGY, BUT A DIFFERENT SET OF VARIANTS TO GO AFTER H5N1.

SO THIS IS GOING TO BE A RELATABLE TECHNOLOGY ACROSS MANY DIFFERENT INFECTIONS.

YOU MAY KNOW THAT WE HAVE A VACCINE UNDER LATE STAGE DEVELOPMENT AGAINST NOROVIRUS FOR WHICH THERE ISN'T A VACCINE, THE ONE THAT CAUSES TRAVELERS DIARRHEA.

THERE ARE OTHER VACCINES WE'RE ALSO CONSIDERING.

THIS IS GOING TO BE A PLATFORM.

WE BELIEVE IT'S HERE TO STAY.

AND IT'S GOT TO EARN ITS PLACE ALONGSIDE THE TRADITIONAL VACCINE TECHNOLOGIES, WHICH HAVE SERVED HUMANITY QUITE WELL AND WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO.

>> WHEN WE TALKED EARLIER THIS YEAR ON THIS SHOW, YOU TALKED ABOUT THE CUTS THAT WERE BEING DONE IN RESEARCH FUNDING BY THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

YOU SAID THOSE COULD HAVE BAD, NEGATIVE EFFECTS ON OUR ABILITY TO KEEP UP WITH CHINA AND OTHERS IN CREATING DRUGS.

TO WHAT EXTENT COULD THIS NEW DRUG THAT YOU'VE DONE FOR MELANOMA, THIS NEW TREATMENT FOR MELANOMA, COULD IT HAVE HAPPENED WITHOUT FEDERAL RESEARCH DOLLARS?

AND ARE YOU STILL WORRIED ABOUT THE CUTBACK OF FEDERAL RESEARCH DOLLARS?

>> YES.

I MEAN, I THINK, WALTER, AND YOU KNOW THIS VERY, VERY WELL, BECAUSE YOU STUDIED THE WHOLE SCIENTIFIC ENTERPRISE, THE ACADEMIC RESEARCH UNDERLIES ALL OF THE DOWNSTREAM APPLIED WORK THAT THEN LEADS TO IMPORTANT PRODUCTS THAT HUMANITY BENEFITS FROM, WHETHER IT'S DRUGS OR NEW ENERGY SOLUTIONS OR NEW SOURCES OF FOOD, ET CETERA.

SO IF I THINK OF IT AS THE FOUNDATION.

IF WE CAN --IF WE LOOSEN THE FOUNDATION, IT REALLY BECOMES PROBLEMATIC ON WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO BUILD ABOVE IT.

SO THE WAY IT WORKS IS PEOPLE WILL DO SCIENCE, AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, MOVE UNKNOWN THINGS INTO THE DOMAIN OF KNOWN THINGS BY EXPERIMENTATION, BY CRITICAL THOUGHT AND DEBATES.

THAT PROCESS THEN BECOMES A SUBSTRATE FROM WHICH WE THEN MAKE PRODUCTS, WHETHER IT'S THE mRNA FOR CANCER OR MANY, MANY OTHER DRUGS AND SOLUTIONS.

SO IF YOU STARVE THE UNDERLYING FOUNDATIONAL SCIENCE, SOMETIMES PEOPLE CALL THIS BASIC RESEARCH.

I DON'T PARTICULARLY SUBSCRIBE TO THAT BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING BASIC ABOUT IT.

IT'S ACTUALLY ALL ENABLING.

ENABLING RESEARCH WOULD BE A BETTER DESCRIPTOR BECAUSE WITHOUT IT, WE CAN'T DO THESE OTHER THINGS.

SO IT'S BY DEFINITION ENABLING.

BUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ENABLING AND APPLIED RESEARCH WHICH IS WHAT INDUSTRY OFTEN FUNDS IS IN APPLIED RESEARCH YOU HAVE TO HAVE A PRODUCT IN MIND.

IN ENABLING RESEARCH, YOU JUST HAVE A CAPABILITY IN MIND, YOU KNOW, WHAT IF I COULD MAKE A MATERIAL THAT'S ONE TIMES STRONGER THAN ANY OTHER MATERIAL MAN HAS EVER SEEN.

WELL, ANSWERING THAT QUESTION WILL ALLOW YOU TO MAKE LIGHTER AIRPLANES, ALLOW YOU TO MAKE ROCKETS THAT GO --ALL OF THESE THINGS ARE INDEPENDENT.

SO TO ME, ANY SCIENTIFIC SUCCESS IN THE FORM OF PRODUCTS SHOULD BE A REMINDER THAT THE FOUNDATION IS WHAT WE NEED TO REINFORCE.

BY THE WAY, OTHER COUNTRIES THAT ARE COMPETING ABSOLUTELY ARE FOLLOWING THE EXAMPLE THAT THE U. S. SET GOING BACK TO THE MID PART OF THE LAST CENTURY AND BENEFITTED FROM.

I THINK THIS IS AN IMPORTANT DEBATE THE COUNTRY IS HAVING.

WE'VE EXPRESSED OUR VIEWS THAT THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD IS THE BEST WAY FOR US TO NAVIGATE THE UNKNOWN.

AND EVERYBODY IS WELCOME TO PARTICIPATE IN IT.

AND THE KEY DIFFERENCE, THOUGH, IS IN THE WORLD OF SCIENCE, YOU HAVE TO ARGUE WITH FACTS.

OPINIONS AND FACTS CANNOT BE INTERCHANGEABLE.

AND I THINK THIS IS WHERE THE POLITICIZATION OF SCIENCE, NOT QUITE POLITICAL SCIENCE, BUT POLITICIZED SCIENCE IS PROBLEMATIC BECAUSE THERE IT'S REALLY PEOPLE'S OPINION THAT DOMINATES, NOT THE FACTS.

AND I THINK WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SAY NO, NO, I NO MORE WANT SOMEBODY'S OPINION TO GOVERNOR WHAT MEDICAL TREATMENT I RECEIVE BUT RATHER FACTS AND WHAT THE SOCIETY, THE INDUSTRY, THE MEDICAL SOCIETY THAT IS EXPERT DECIDES, THEN I WOULD IN TRYING TO RELY RELY ON WHERE WE SHOULD DIVERT AND INVEST MONEY, RESEARCH MONEY.

WE SHOULD BE CONSISTENT WITH THE WAY WE ARE FUNDING THE RESEARCH ESTABLISHMENT, AND THEN REAP THE BENEFITS OF IT THROUGH THE ENTREPRENEURIAL ENGINE WE HAVE IN THIS COUNTRY THAT IS INCOMPARABLE TO ANYBODY ELSE.

I THINK WE HAVE A HUGE ADVANTAGE THERE.

>> NOUBAR AFEYAN, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US AGAIN.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.