>>> WE RETURN TO THE UNITED STATES, WITH A CLOSER LOOK AT WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE WHITE HOUSE AND WHY, FROM ICES VIOLENT CRACKDOWN IN MINNEAPOLIS TO THE PRESENT 70 MINUTE SPEECH AT DAVOS RIDDLED WITH INACCURACY AND VERBAL JABS.

OUR NEXT GUEST WRITES THAT TRUMP'S POLITICS OR NOT AMERICA FIRST, THERE ME FIRST.

OPINION COLUMNISTJOINS WALTER ISAACSON.

>> THANK YOU, TOM FRIEDMAN, WELCOME BACK TO THE SHOW.

>> GREAT TO BE WITH YOU, WALTER.

>> TODAY MARK CARNEY GAVE A SPEECH THAT I THINK MAY BE THE MOST SIGNIFICANT ARE ONE OF THE MOST SIGNIFICANT IN 80 YEARS, SINCE WINSTON CHURCHILL GAVE HIS IRON CURTAIN SPEECH.

IT WAS ABOUT, HE SAID, THE END OF THE AMERICAN-LED WORLD ORDER.

IS THAT WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW?

>> YOU ARE ASKING A CRITICALLY IMPORTANT QUESTION.

I THINK IT COULD BE HAPPENING, I THINK THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE WITHIN THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION WHO ARE ACTING IN WAYS THAT WILL INEVITABLY MAKE IT HAPPEN, BUT I DON'T THINK WE'RE THERE YET, AND I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF PUSHBACK AGAINST IT.

IF, NOWHERE ELSE IN THE FINANCIAL MARKETS, YOU SAW HOW THE MARKET REACTED SO NEGATIVELY BY TRUMP SEEMING TO ENGAGE IN WHAT PRAYER MR.

CARNEY CALLED, A RUPTURE, BASICALLY, WITH THE ATLANTIC LINES.

>> AND TRUMP HAS TALKED ABOUT THINGS THAT ARE AMERICA FIRST, BUT YOU HAVE A COLUMN SAYING, HE'S NOT REALLY DOING WITH AMERICA FIRST, IT'S KIND OF THE FIRST RIGHT NOW?

>> YEAH, YOU KNOW, IF YOU LOOK AT THE HISTORY OF AMERICAN FOREIGN POLICY, WALTER, WHICH YOU HAVE, GOING BACK TO YOUR KISSINGER BOOK, YOU WOULD SAY THAT THE KIND OF RUPTURE, THE KIND OF 180 DEGREE TURN THAT WE ARE SEEING BY THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION ON FOREIGN POLICY, OR ATTEMPT TO TURN, IS THE KIND OF THING YOU ONLY ASSOCIATE WITH A MAJOR WAR, OR A HUGE ECONOMIC EXPLOSION TO THE DOWNSIDE.

WHAT IS SO STRIKING ABOUT THIS MOMENT, IS, THIS IS NOT HAPPENING IN THE CONTEXT OF A MAJOR WAR OR SOME KIND OF ECONOMIC COLLAPSE.

IT'S ENTIRELY DRIVEN BY THE MOODS, ATTITUDES, AND SUPERSTITIONS OF A PRESIDENT, WHO IS MORE UNBOUNDED THAN ANY HAD, IN THE MODERN ERA.

HE'S A MAN OF EXTREME VIEWS, WHO IS BASICALLY ABLE TO GOVERN, AT LEAST FOR THESE TWO YEARS, WITH A SUPREME COURT, THE HOUSE, THE SENATE AND THE WHITE HOUSE, ENTIRELY IN HIS AUNTS BUT NOT ONLY IN HIS HANDS, WITH A REPUBLICAN PARTY, THAT IS BASICALLY CHOSEN TO SURRENDER ITS RESPONSIBILITIES FOR ADVICE AND CONSENT, FROM THE SENATE, AND SPENDING POWER FROM THE HOUSE, TO THE PRESIDENT.

SO, WE'VE NEVER SEEN THIS COMBINATION OF A PRESIDENT WITH RADICAL VIEWS ON FOREIGN POLICY, UNBUFFERED, ENTIRELY BY THE ADMINISTRATION, AND THAT'S WHY YOU GET THIS MOMENT, WHERE, THERE'S NO WAR, NO ECONOMIC CRISIS DRIVING THIS.

IT'S JUST THE MAN.

SO I'M LOATH TO DESCRIBE THIS AS A PERMANENT SHIFT, BECAUSE, I DON'T THINK UNDERNEATH IT, IS THE PLUMBING AND WIRING THAT REQUIRES SUCH A SHIFT.

SO MUCH IS COMBUSTING IN TRUMP'S OWN HEAD.

>> WENT CARNEY SPOKE AT DAVOS, HE TALKS ABOUT, HE TOOK UP THE CAUSE OF, THAT TALKED ABOUT THE COLLABORATIONS INSTINCT IN- HOUSE SYSTEMS ONLY WORK IF PEOPLE GO ALONG WITH THINGS THEY KNOW ARE TRUE, LIKE THEY PUT THE SIGN IN THE WINDOW SAYING, UNITE IN THE OLD SOVIET UNION, EVEN THOUGH THEY DON'T BELIEVE THAT, AND HE SAID IT'S TIME FOR THE REST OF THE WORLD ESPECIALLY MIDDLE COUNTRIES LIKE CANADA, TO TAKE THE SIGN DOWN AND SAY, THIS IS ALL FAKE, WE ARE NO LONGER GOING TO PLAY ALONG.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT?

>> BY HAPPENSTANCE I SPOKE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF BRITISH COLUMBIA IN VANCOUVER LAST WEEK.

AND, I WAS INTRODUCED BY THE DIRECTOR OF THE SCHOOL, AND, IN THE PROCESS OF INTRODUCING ME, SHE REFERRED TO PRIME MINISTER CARNEY'S REMARKS IN DAVOS, WHICH HAD JUST HAPPENED THE DAY BEFORE OR TWO DAYS BEFORE, AND, THE AUDIENCE JUST ERUPTED IN CHEERS, A LOT MORE CHEERS THAN I DID, AND MY CANADIAN HOST POINTED OUT TO ME IN THE GROCERY STORES NOW, THEY HAVE MARKED WITH CANADIAN FLEX, CANADIAN MADE PRODUCTS.

THIS IS NOT ONLY INSULTING TO THEM AND FRIGHTENING TO THEM BUT THE OLD SAYING, THE ENEMY GETS A VOTE, CANADA IS NOT OUR ENEMY, EVEN IF TRUMP IS TRYING TO PRESENT THEM THAT WAY.

THE WORLD WILL PUSH BACK.

IT WILL PUSH BACK THROUGH MARKETS, IT'LL PUSH BACK THROUGH, LOOK AT THE PRICE OF GOLD, JUST AS A PROXY.

WHAT IS THAT ABOUT, OKAY?

IT'S NOT JUST PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, WORRIED ABOUT THE INSTABILITY OF THE MOMENT, IT'S CENTRAL BANKS AROUND THE WORLD, PUTTING THEIR DOLLARS INTO GOLD, RATHER THAN U.S.

TREASURY BILLS.

SO, THE WORLD GETS A VOTE, AND DONALD TRUMP CAN STEAMROLL LINDSEY GRAHAM AND TOM COTTEN AND HIS OWN PARTY, BUT, YOU KNOW, THE WORLD WILL PUSH BACK.

IT WILL RESIST.

>> ONE OF THE WAYS THAT IS RESISTING IS IT CREATED AN AGREEMENT WITH CHINA NOW, ON MORE OPEN TRADE.

DO YOU THINK WE COULD POSSIBLY SEE CHINA TAKING ADVANTAGE OF ALL OF THIS, AND BECOMING IN SOME WAYS A DE FACTO LEADER OF THE MIDDLE COUNTRIES?

>> YOU KNOW, CHINA WILL ATTEMPT TO DO THAT.

IT HAS ITS OWN PROBLEMS, THOUGH, ITS OWN ASYMMETRIC ECONOMIC RELATIONSHIP WITH SO MANY COUNTRIES, BECAUSE IT'S OVERPRODUCTION, SO, I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD BE EASY, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY REPLACING AMERICA, BUT THE REASON CHINA AND RUSSIA, WALTER, HAVE ALWAYS VOTED OTHERWISE, IS BECAUSE THEY ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND AMERICA'S SECRET SELVES, THEY UNDERSTAND OUR SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE, WHICH IS, THEY HAVE VESSELS, CHINA AND RUSSIA, AND WE HAVE ALLIES.

AND WE HAVE ALLIES BECAUSE WE'VE HAD THIS KIND OF RECIPROCAL RELATIONSHIP WITH THEM, OR A RELATIONSHIP WHERE WE ARE OVERLY GENEROUS BECAUSE WE BELIEVE THE STRENGTH OF THE SYSTEM, WHEN THE SYSTEM IS STRENGTHENED, THE BIGGEST COUNTRY WILL BENEFIT THE MOST.

WE HAVE ALLIES, THEY HAVE VESSELS, AND THE ONE THING THEY HAVE BOTH TRIED TO DO, FOR DECADES, IS, AND THAT THEY DREAMT OF DOING, IS BREAKING UP NATO, AND BREAKING UP THE DE FACTO AMERICAN ALLIANCES IN THE ASIAN-PACIFIC.

AND, THEY NEVER IMAGINED A DAY WHERE OUR OWN PRESIDENT WOULD FACILITATE THAT.

>> ONE OF THE TOPICS WAS GREENLAND, OF COURSE.

WHEN TRUMP SAID WE MAY INVADE GREENLAND, I THOUGHT IT WAS JUST HIS REALITY TV SHOW THING, AND I DON'T THINK HE WAS EVER THINKING OF INVADING GREENLAND BUT WASN'T IT IMPORTANT TO PUSH OUR NATO ALLIES TO DO MORE IN A DEFENSIVE GREENLAND?

>> WE'VE HAD A STORK RELATIONSHIP WITH THE SOVEREIGN IN GREENLAND, THE DENMARK GOVERNMENT, IN PARTNERSHIP WITH THE GREENLAND GOVERNMENT.

IT BASICALLY HAS ALLOWED US, SINCE WORLD WAR II, TO BUILD, STOCK, AND DEPLOY BOTH FORWARD RADAR AND WHATEVER FIGHTER JETS WE WANT, ANYWHERE IN GREENLAND.

WE'VE HAD THAT RELATIONSHIP.

AND THE NOTION THAT, EITHER RUSSIA OR CHINA ARE MOVING ON GREENLAND, IS LUDICROUS.

THERE'S NO PROOF OF THAT.

THERE IS CONCERN THAT AS THE ICE MELTS THERE WILL BE A GRAB OVER THE ARCTIC, BUT THE FACT IS, WE HAVE HAD ALL THE MILITARY ACCESS TO GREENLAND WE NEED.

TRUMP INSISTS WELL BECAUSE WE INVEST ENOUGH IN IT.

WE DON'T OWN GERMANY OR WE DON'T OWN JAPAN BUT WE'VE HAD FORWARD BASES THERE, SINCE WORLD WAR II.

SO THE WHOLE THING IS JUST LUDICROUS, IT'S A DIVERSION BY TRUMP FOR WHATEVER REASON OR OBSESSION, OR, YOU KNOW, OR OBSESSION, YOU KNOW, THIS NOTION I READ THAT OH, US SILLY PEOPLE, WE TAKE HIM LITERALLY, NOT FIGURATIVELY.

WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT MEAN, WHEN THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES SPEAKS, YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO TAKE HIM LITERALLY?

WHEN HE TELLS YOU, YOU KNOW, IF YOU DON'T GIVE ME GREENLAND, YOU KNOW, YOU WILL SEE WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO YOU?

>> LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THE DAVOS, THE EUROPEAN INTERNATIONAL CONSENSUS OVER THE PAST 60 YEARS OR SO.

DIDN'T IT GET SOME FUNDAMENTAL THINGS WRONG, INCLUDING THE REWARDS OF GLOBALIZATION, NOT DISTRIBUTED FAIRLY THAT HAS CAUSED THIS BACKLASH AND CAUSE PEOPLE LIKE PRESIDENT TRUMP AND OTHERS AROUND EUROPE AND THE WORLD TO HAVE A POPULIST BACKLASH AGAINST US?

>> WELL, LET'S SEE, LAST TIME I CHECKED, MORE PEOPLE GROW OUT OF POVERTY FASTER IN INDIA AND CHINA THAN ANY TIME IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD.

NOW, YOU CAN SAY THAT THEIR GROWTH OUT OF PROPERTY CAME AT THE EXPENSE OF AMERICAN MIDDLE- CLASS, IN THE MIDWEST, IN AMERICA, AND THAT'S TRUE.

TO SOME DEGREE.

AS A COUNTRY, WE SHOULD HAVE DONE MORE TO PROTECT THESE PEOPLE, BUT, I DO THINK THAT GLOBALIZATION HAS A UPSIZE AND ITS DOWNSIDES, AND HER JOB WAS TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE UPSIDE AND TO CUSHION THE DOWNSIDE.

WE DIDN'T DO ENOUGH OF THAT, IN AMERICA, WHEN WE NEEDED TO, AT THE SAME TIME, IF YOU GO TO LOTS OF THESE TOWNS NOW, THEY HAVE LIFTED THEMSELVES UP AND TRANSFORMED THEMSELVES WITH NEW INJURIES --INDUSTRIES AND WHATNOT, IT'S NOT PERFECT, IT'S NOT WHERE IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUT WITH THE ALTERNATIVE, SHOULD WE HAVE OPTED FOR AUTARCHY, HOW DID THAT WORK OUT WHEN THE WORLD WENT THAT DIRECTION BEFORE WORLD WAR I. SO, YOU KNOW, THERE'S AN EASY STRAW MAN AT DAVOS AND AN EASY, VERBAL SELF-CONGRATULATION THERE ON BOTH OF OUR EXTREMES BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, YOU KNOW, THE FACT IS THAT THE WORLD THAT WE HAVE TODAY, THE WORLD THAT HAS BEEN RELATIVELY MORE PROSPEROUS, MORE PEACEFUL, THEN ANY PERIOD IN HISTORY, IS SO MUCH A PRODUCT OF AMERICA BEING THE WAY AMERICA WAS AND THE FACT THAT YOU HAD A U.S.

CHINA TRADING RELATIONSHIP IN THE MIDDLE OF IT, THAT, WITHOUT WHICH, WELL, I DON'T WANT TO LIVE TO SEE THAT WORLD WHERE BOTH OF THOSE THINGS BREAK DOWN BECAUSE WHEN THAT HAPPENS, YOU WILL MISS THIS PERIOD WHEN IT'S GONE.

>> ANOTHER REASON I THINK PERHAPS WITH THE POPULACE BACKLASH THAT WE ARE SEEING, WAS IMMIGRATION, AND EMIGRATION GOING TOO FAR, IT SEEMED.

DID WE GET SOME OF THAT WRONG OR WAS THERE A WAY TO TRY AND SOLVE THAT ISSUE?

>> I THINK WE GOT IT ABSOLUTELY WRONG I THINK DEMOCRATS AND PARTICULARLY THE LOST --LAST ADMINISTRATION HAVE A LOT TO ANSWER FOR.

I'VE BEEN ADVOCATING THE SAME MESSAGE ON IMMIGRATION NOW, SINCE TRUMP REALLY MADE IT AN ISSUE IN HIS FIRST ADMINISTRATION.

I'M FOR A VERY HIGH WALL.

A HIGH WALL FROM ONE END OF THE MEXICAN BORDER TO THE OTHER WITH A VERY BIG GATE, OKAY, BECAUSE UNLESS YOU CAN ENSURE AMERICANS THAT WE ARE GOING TO LOSE A LOT OF THEM, WHEN IT COMES TO IMMIGRATION.

I'M SUPER PRO-IMMIGRATION.

I'M FOR THE HIGH-END, HIGH EDUCATED IMMIGRATION AND I'M FOR ANY PATIENT WHO CAN BUILD A BOAT OUT OF MILK CARTONS AND GET TO OUR SHORES, WOW, I WANT THAT PERSON.

I WANT THE HIGH ENERGY AND A HIGH IQ IMMIGRANTS, BUT WE ARE NOT GOING TO GET THEM BECAUSE WE WILL NOT HAVE A POLITICAL CONSENSUS UNLESS WE CAN CONTROL THE BORDER.

AND THAT'S WHY I URGED IN MY COLUMN YESTERDAY, MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN MINNESOTA THAT I'M SO PROUD OF FOR PROTECTING THEIR LAW-ABIDING, HARD- WORKING, CULTURALLY ENRICHING NEIGHBORS, EVEN IF SOME OF THEM ARE HERE ILLEGALLY, OKAY, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IT'S VITAL TO ME THAT DEMOCRATS, IF THEY WANT TO DO WELL IN THE MIDTERMS, THEY NEED TO MAKE IT VERY CLEAR, THEY ARE FOR A HIGH WALL WITH A BIG GATE, THEY ARE FOR LEGALIZING IMMIGRATION.

BOTH PARTIES, YOU KNOW, HAVE FACT IS, DEMOCRATS CAME TOGETHER UNDER THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION, WITH SENATOR LANGFORD OF OBAMA, WITH A PLAN TO ACTUALLY OVERHAUL ALL OF IMMIGRATION REFORM, TO GIVE US, WHAT I CALL A HIGH WALL WITH A BIG GATE AND DONALD TRUMP KILLED THE BILL, BECAUSE HE WANTED TO USE THIS AS A WEDGE ISSUE.

>> TALKING ABOUT YOUR MOST RECENT COLUMN, WHEN YOU SPEAK AS SOMEBODY WHO WAS BORN IN MINNEAPOLIS, AND GREW UP IN THAT AREA, TELL ME WHY IS IT COMING APART SO BADLY IN MINNEAPOLIS, WHY HAS THIS BECOME THE FOCAL POINT FOR THINGS?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, MINNESOTA IS A CLASSIC EXAMPLE OF A COMMUNITY THAT HAD SOME VERY RAPID DEMOGRAPHIC CHANGES, MAYBE TOO QUICKLY, FOR THE STATE TO FULLY ABSORB, BOTH IMMIGRANTS FROM SOMALIA AND MORE BROADLY, SO THE TENSION WAS THERE.

AT THE SAME TIME, IT'S A COMMUNITY THAT HAS A LEGACY OF A REAL SOCIAL CONSCIOUSNESS, AND THEY WANT TO MAKE THIS WORK, AND THEREFORE, MADE MINNEAPOLIS A SO-CALLED SANCTUARY CITY, THAT WASN'T GOING TO ARREST OR FACILITATE THE ARREST EASILY, OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

AND, TRUMP, HE KNEW IT WAS A PERFECT PLACE TO RATHER THAN CALMLY SIT DOWN BRING TOGETHER, SAY LET ME CREATE A BILL, YOU KNOW, FOR LEGALIZING IMMIGRATION AND CONTROLLING THE BORDER, LET'S WORK TOGETHER WITH THE PEOPLE OF MINNESOTA.

HE SAW THIS AS JUST A GREAT WAY TO PURSUE HIS OWN POLITICS, WHICH IS THE POLITICS ALWAYS OF DIVISION, NOT ADDITION, HOW DO I DIVIDE, DIVIDE, DIVIDE, DIVIDE, SO I WIN THE ELECTION BY 50.001%, AND THAT KIND OF LEADERSHIP, IN THIS KIND OF HUGELY COMPLEX SITUATION WILL GIVE YOU THIS KIND OF EXPOSURE.

BUT I HAVE TO SAY ONE THING, DEMOCRATS NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF VOTERS IN THIS COUNTRY AND I'M ONE OF THEM, AND INDEPENDENT VOTERS, WHO ARE NOT GOOD WITH JUST AN OPEN BORDER.

IN MY CASE IT'S BECAUSE I WANT IMMIGRATION, I WANT MORE OF IT, BUT IT'S GOT TO BE LEGAL IMMIGRATION AND IF WE DON'T CONTROL THE BORDER, YOU WILL NOT HAVE A NATIONAL CONSENSUS FOR THAT, AND THAT WOULD BE A TRAGEDY.

>> DO YOU THINK I.C.E.

HAS A RIGHT TO BE IN MINNEAPOLIS?

>> THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT I.C.E., IN THEORY, WAS CREATED, IN PART, TO CONTROL THE BORDER AND TO FIND ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.

WE DID THAT UNDER OBAMA, WE DID THAT UNDER BIDEN, A LITTLE.

WE'VE DONE IT ALL ALONG.

I'M NOT FOR WHAT THEY DID IN MINNEAPOLIS WHICH WAS DELIBERATE PROVOCATION, SENDING 3000 PEOPLE INTO A CITY, TO FIND NOT JUST ILLEGAL PEOPLE, BUT TO ACTUALLY START PULLING PEOPLE OUT OF THEIR HOMES AND STOPPING THEM ON THE STREETS, JUST BECAUSE THEY LOOKED FOR THEM.

I LOOK FOR THEM.

HECK, THEY COULD HAVE PULLED ME OFF.

>> LET ME READ YOU SOMETHING FROM YOUR COLUMN THAT STRUCK ME AS REALLY STRONG WORDS ABOUT I.C.E.

IN MINNEAPOLIS.

YOU SAY, HAMAS, REFERRING TO THE PALESTINIAN GROUP THAT HAS BEEN CONTROLLING THE GAZA STRIP, YOU SAY HAMAS AND I.C.E.

SHARE VERY ONE VERY INVISIBLE --VISIBLE TRAIT THAT I THOUGHT I'D EVER SEEN THE UNITED STATES, ALMOST ALL OF THEIR FOOT SOLDIERS WEAR MASKS.

MY EXPERIENCE AS A REPORTER IN THE MIDDLE EAST TAUGHT ME THAT PEOPLE WEAR MASKS BECAUSE THEY ARE UP TO SOMETHING BAD AND DON'T WANT THEIR FACES CAPTURED I THOUGHT OFTEN IN BEIRUT AND GAZA.

I NEVER EXPECTED TO SEE IT IN MINNEAPOLIS.

UNPACK THAT FOR ME.

>> WALTER, FACES A FEDERAL AGENCY CHARGED WITH IMPLEMENTING THE CONSTITUTION, FEDERAL LAWS, WHY ARE THEY WEARING MASKS?

WHY ARE THEY WEARING MASKS?

THE MINNEAPOLIS POLICE DON'T WEAR MASKS, THE WASHINGTON POLICE DON'T WEAR MASKS, WHY ARE THEY WEARING MASKS?

I THINK IT'S SOMETHING, IT REALLY DELEGITIMIZE THEM, MAKE THEM LOOK EVEN MORE SINISTER, AND MAKES ME WONDER, WHAT THEY ARE UP TO.

>> TOM FRIEDMAN, THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

I APPRECIATE IT.

>> PLEASURE, WALTER, THANK YOU.