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He's a recording artist, a radio station owner, minister, and state lawmaker.

Hello, I'm Tom Britt.

On this episode of Tennessee is Talking, we're sitting down with Representative Johnny Shaw.

As the Tennessee legislature is busy in Nashville, we'll find out what are the hot issues and more with Johnny Shaw.

Let's let the conversation begin.

That's so cool.

Then that's when I said that-- The problem with that idea is-- Wow, that was amazing.

Then I came up with the solution.

What was that about?

Here's what I think about it.

Now we're talking.

West Tennessee PBS presents Tennessee is Talking.

Let the conversation begin.

Thanks for joining the discussion.

I'm Tom Britt.

Today we're honored to be sp..

He's also a businessman, a radio station owner, a recording person, if we still do records and that sort of thing.

Let's get started and see how it feels to talk with State Representative Johnny Shaw about what's going on in the state legislature and some other topics too.

Welcome, Johnny.

It's good to see you again.

Thank you, Tom.

Thank you for having me today.

-Yes.

-I know it's a busy time for you.

The legislative session gets underway and then it's just bam, bam, bam, lots of bills, lots of things to look at.

Tell us what's been going on this year and where we are in this session.

Well, we are right in the midst of the 113th last half.

The hottest topics right now, of course, is the voucher, ESAs.

That's the big issue.

From Mountain City to the Mississippi River, all of the public school directors are against this program that the governor is wanting to launch to give these scholarships to kids that they might choose where they'd like to go to school, preferably private schools.

That is the biggest topic because what I'm hearing is that this program could very well, to some degree, bankrupt the public school system.

Now, the way they're explaining it is because the governor has this extra money that he wants to put in the program, it's not going to interfere with the budgets that public school systems are working on right now, but when a student leave and that $7,075 go with them, if they come back that same year, they don't get it back.

However, if the next year they don't come back, then the budget is adjusted to however many students the public school system have.

That's the big hot topic right now in the legislature, along with other few things like-- Let me ask you about that education thing.

Yes.

Cheers.

Can the state afford that?

I've heard some wild numbers thrown around how much it's goin.. Can we afford that?

Are we borrowing money here to put over here?

I don't know.

If all of the students we ..

I think we're waiting out into-.

-Unknown waters, right?

--unknown waters.

That's what I think.

I think it will cost us more than we can.. Now, the governor wants to do a test run.

It's a pilot program.

If it works as well as he says, it's going to work.

I'm not sure where he got his numbers from.

I know the new commissioner comes from Texas.

She is the voucher queen of all of this stuff.

She's the one, I think, who's driving this train, but I don't think we can afford it.

I think I've heard that state financial officials are saying, where is this going to come from?

How are we going to balance?

Maybe a slight downturn in the state sales tax, which is what we fund everything with in the state, right?

Definitely.

Then, of course, there's some legisla.. through to even take taxes off food, period.

Which will lower the income, right?

Yes, which will lower the income.

I think if we do what he want us to do, we're going to have to find more money rather than cutting taxes.

That's what I think.

All right.

Some of the other topics .. Sure.

Well, the other topics, I think, is Tennessee State is in the news right now.

The dissolving of the board, appointing new members to the board.

I think the president has resigned [crosstalk].

President has resigned.

Yes, that's in the news.

Plus a few other things that people are concerned about.

I don't want to paint a picture to say that the government is not good.

Oh, I understand.

There's always those issues.

Right.

Sure.

Things that we have to deal with.

Sure.

Right.

Yes.

I th.. there was an audit that showed maybe the state didn't quite give as much money as it was required to the university.

That is correct.

That is correct.

A lot of kids from around West Tennessee go to Tennessee State.

-They love it.

-Definitely.

Yes.

All this area, Tennessee State, yes.

-Sure.

-Yes, big area.

What else is going on?

Anything else coming on?

I know we're always usually talking about guns and t.. Well, guns is not the topic.

We've got some members who are constantly bringing up that topic, but the legislature as a whole, for the most part, or the leaders of the legislature on the House side, it's pretty well ignoring that topic.

A little bit about gun safety.

A little bit, not much.

In terms of what we can do to manage guns, keep them out of the streets because the governor passed a few years back the open carry law.

I think that added to people being able to take guns from people and use them for the wrong reason.

Not a whole lot about guns.

Yes.

I think there was a bill introduced, and it may go nowhere and never get out of committee.

That's where bills go when they don't come up, right?

[chuckles] -Yes.

Sure.

[chuckles] -They stay in committee.

That perhaps there should be some safety training for school kids and everybody statewide.

The TWRA and some other agencies would help.

Is that going anywhere?

Have you heard anything about that?

Well, it passed the House because that's one of our local legislators.

Representative Todd.

-Right.

[crosstalk] -.

-Had that bill.

It passed the House, for gun safety.

I understand that it would be taught in the schools, but it would be taught by someone who's qualified to teach gun safety and to say to a child, "If you see a gun, here's what you should do rather than picking it up."

Pretty good piece of legislation.

To my knowledge, I know it passed the House.

I'm not for sure on the Senate side.

Yes, of course.

I'm not even for sure the .. -Yes.

-Yes.

Of course, we're telecasting here today, or broadcasting if you want to say that.

-Sure.

-You own radio stations in Bolivar.

You're a minister of the St. John Baptist Church in Stanton, which is kind of busy over there, I know, around that area.

[chuckles] -Definitely.

I haven't been in the state legislature since 2000.

Which role is your favorite?

Perhaps expound a little bit and tell us why.

Well, I would have to say the ministry is the favorite, but it really all chimes and blends together.

What I do every day, I think of service in the legislature.

I look at it as service.

When I'm on air, I think about it as serving people.

When I'm in the pulpit on Sunday, I think about service.

My attitude in all the three hats that I wear is about service.

It's a blend.

It's a mixture.

-Yes.

-It's a blend of everything.

As we said, you're a man who wears many hats.

What about Stanton, BlueOval, the growth and everything?

Wow, that's a wild map.

[laughter] Which we now know that they've backed up on tota.. and maybe to a hybrid or even full gasoline engines there, right?

They have.

I go way back with that project because that particular project started about 20 years ago, not necessarily BlueOval itself, but purchasing the land.

Land.

Of course, being one of the legislators who were willing to vote on purchasing that land, we were highly criticized by using taxpayers' dollars to purchase land.

The vision was something big is coming to Tennessee one day, and we won't have the room for them when they come.

-For years-- -It sat there, didn't it?

Yes.

For years we came home with egg on our face, man.

Nothing's happening in the megasite.

Finally, they changed it to the Memphis megasite.

That didn't work.

One of the candidates running for governor back a while back wanted to break it up in small partials.

That didn't work, which I'm glad it didn't.

Finally - Yes, because that would affect ever.. that has an industrial park had they done that, wouldn't it?

Yes.

Yes.

-Yes.

-Definitely.

Then, of course, Governor Lee comes al.. and finally, one day, Ford knocks on the door and says, "We'd like to come to Tennessee and we'd like to bring a battery plant with us."

One of the things I want to stress is there are two different industries coming.

It's called BlueOval, but BlueOval SK makes the battery and Ford is going to make the vehicles.

Now, we're excited, so exciting.

We don't really know what to do.

[laughter] People have trouble just getting through down there, ri.. -Yes.

-Now, let me ask you this.

Why did you get into politics?

Was it the service that you mentioned earlier?

Well, actually, I was local county commissioner for a couple of terms.

Two and a half terms, to be exact.

One day, I'm sitting in my office at the radio station because I've been in radio before all of this happened, and I get a call from two ladies.

Mrs. Minnie Bommer from Covington and Mrs. Jean Carney from Haywood County.

These two ladies are community activists.

They had done some research to find that there was a lack of representation in rural West Tennessee.

They stepped out on the limb and applied for a new district with the federal government, and the federal government granted them that opportunity.

One day I'm sitting in my office at the radio station and I get a call from Mrs. Bommer.

She said, "How would you like to become a state legislator?"

I said, "A state what?

State legislator?"

I don't know anything about what you're talking about.

She said, "I know you don't, but we'll help you."

We actually - They probably had your qualifying petition out then, right?

Honestly, they did, but they had done research through Memphis State University.

They were researching all of the community leaders and whose names were popping up first and getting involved in community efforts and my name kept popping up.

In fact, I think my name popped up more than everybody else's, and so they thought I would be a good pick and they asked me if I would run and promised to raise the money for my campaign.

I will tell you, that did not happen.

The promise was we'll do that, and I got $275 from them.

It cost $60,000 to run that race.

For those viewing, how far is your district?

What is it [crosstalk]?

It's not only Portia-Madison County but it swings all around.

It is.

Bolivar, Hardeman County is the main district.

I live in Bolivar and I represent all of Hardeman County with the exception of 2,200 students on the Mississippi line that connects Ron Gant and his district from Fayette County to McNair County.

Basically, I've got all of Hardeman.

I got 12,000 constituents in Haywood, which is the BlueOval area.

I represent uptown Brownsville back through BlueOval back into Hardeman County.

Then in Madison, I've got the area of Denmark rural area and East Jackson.

That makes up my 70,000 constituents that I have to have to represent.

Which is a pretty big district, isn't it?

Pretty good sized district, yes.

It is.

A lot of geographical area-.

Geographically, it is.

Yes.

to cover and that sort of thing.

Sure.

As one of the few or perhaps maybe now only one of the Black-owned broadcasters in the state of Tennessee, what's your take on the future of broadcasting?

I think broadcasting will always be here.

I think radio is the mother or the daddy of broadcasting.

I think you will even see TV fail before radio fail.

Here's one of the-- Locally, 95% of any local radio station will.. 95% of that community will listen to that local radio station because local radio do things that no other broadcasters do.

We do the field report, which is the biggest item every morning.

We have people to call in.

You've been in radio, and they'll ask, "You mean nobody passed .. -Yes.

-[laughs] Yes, they want those obituaries.

They want those obituaries.

I think because we are so local, I think we'll always be there.

Now, having said that, the local business has gone away.

All the mom and pops are gone.

I think what we have to do is to look out in a broader area and see how we can partner with other stations and do business and get that regional and national business.

I do think the future of radio is bright.

I do.

Yes.

Well, you mentioned local businesses.

Your wife, Opal, is a business person.

-Yes.

-Tell me about that and how she ended up getting into business and doing what she does.

Well, she was in the restaurant business.

She's out now because of the pocket.

[laughter] I'm doing all the financing and she's running the business.

Opal started Opal's Restaurant in Bolivar some years back, which was a real big hit.

The problem was she couldn't get a fair price for the food, and we had to supplement that.

We did have to close after some time.

-Home cooking, you just--.

-Yes, [crosstalk].

pretty well go in and [crosstalk].

Put my food under a table there or two once or twice.

Yes.

Sure.

I think you visited a couple of times.

Opal has been the brain behind actually our music ministry all the years.

She did start a business and did well with the help of Shaw's Broadcasting over those years.

Did very well.

Yes.

Tell me about that music business you.. What does that encompass?

The music business started in a little community called Vildo, Tennessee.

We were asked as high school students because I had a reputation of singing with my sister growing up.

As a lot of folks do in churches and things like that.

Yes, in churches.

Opal played music for churches growing up.

One Sunday, we were at a function at the Johnson Chapel Church down at Vildo, and we were asked to sing a song together.

From that day, we became The Shaw Singers, which led us to 37 states in the United States.

We went to Paris, France, two sell out.

Oh, my goodness.

Seven concerts in Germany.

That's a long trip.

Yes.

She did most of the writing of those .. She has about 37 compositions.

We did an album called Special Prayer.

I think that was the big one.

It was a song that everybody could relate to in the way she sang it, the lyrics of it.

"Here I am, Lord, all alone talking to you."

Those type of lyrics.

That really went big for us.

That's how we got our start.

In fact, that's how I got my start to do radio later.

Do you do other music rather than religious music, or is it--?

-Just religious music.

-Just religious music?

Yes.

My mom would never let-- I wanted to sing the blu.. She would never let me sing.

I said, "Mom, let me do one show on stage," she would never let me do it.

I'm the B.B.

King guy, the Bobby Blad, all that.

-I wanted to-.

-Classic stuff, yes.

sing those songs, but she would never let me do it.

She's in heaven now, so I'm not going there.

-You're not going to start.

-No, no, no, no.

You're not going to start now.

That's for sure.

I know that you told me one time that you want to stay in the legislature and continue to work, perhaps see the BlueOval to fruition.

Are you still leaning in that direction?

I am leaning.

I'm looking to do one more term in..

I think the BlueOval project will be finished up and running in mid-'25.

That's my goal, is to stay until they are up and in production, which will be one more term.

Then I plan to leave and go home and get on my John Deere.

-Not going to do a lot more radio then?

-No, no, no.

Let your kids do a lot more of it maybe?

The kids, yes, they're going to take-- Which they already do a lot of it, don't they?

They already do that.

Now, I will work a little bit.

I'll stay in contact with radio and with my listeners because I do have listeners that they don't have.

When they don't hear me, they get upset.

I'll keep them happy.

You probably play a little music that they don't play sometimes.

They probably don't play.

-Yes.

-That's okay because everybody knows what they like and they like what they know, right?

-That's right.

-Good music there.

Yes.

The district itself, back to that, talking about that, are there other things that you would like to see accomplished in the district other than-- Of course, BlueOval is a give me.

Everybody wants that to happen.

I want to see more training for mental health starting because what I'm beginning to see even in the church that the mental health piece is a critical piece.

I really want to see a lot of in-depth training for mental health starting.

Secondly, I think that's going to solve a lot of the crime problems because we do have a high rate of crime now.

I think that is the first step with other good things like fasting and prayer to help get that crime piece in order.

I want to see people trained to a point where they can start their own businesses and can be another Johnny Shaw.

It's not hard.

It's about dedication.

I want people to understand.

First of all, you need to know who you are.

You got to know yourself before you can know how to operate a business, how to be a good family man, whatever.

You need to know who you are.

We spend a lifetime trying to get to know other people, but we don't know ourselves.

When you get to know yourself and your capabilities of what you can do, the first thing you realize, if I'm going to be a business person or a leader, I've got a whole lot of challenges in front of me.

Am I up to those challenges?

Can I face those challenges?

Most people say it's about finance or money, but it's not.

Running a business is not just about having the resources of money.

It's about attitude.

It's about character, personality.

There are so many pieces to it.

If you don't know yourself, you'll never be able to be a success at what you're about to do.

That's the stuff I would like to see happen in this community.

Go back to the legislature for just a second.

It seems that politics and the legislative process has become so contentious.

It has, yes.

What do we need to do to help fix that?

It seemed to me when I was growing up, there was bipartisanship, and it was okay to reach across the aisle and say, "Hey, I need your help.

It's the best for the constituents or the voters.

We need to get this done."

Your thoughts on that and where we are and what we need to do to perhaps get that back if we can.

I think we could get it back only if we had training programs for people who wanted to get into politics.

Because there again, politics is about service.

It's not about me going to Nashville lobbying for what I want, but it's about serving 70,000 people.

What I think we need more than anything, and I'm sure a lot of people just might disagree with this, I think we need a training program for anybody that want to go to the state legislature.

I think they need to understand, here are some of the things you need to understand if you want to be a state legislator.

We got so many people now in the legislature that for selfish reasons, TV hawks, just want to be on the six o'clock news.

It's all about what they want.

It's all about how they think.

It's all about-- Look, this is really a group effort.

When I hear people campaign and say, "I'm going to Nashville, and here's what I'm going to do," I'm thinking, you got to have 49 other legislators.

You got to have 17 senators.

You got to have a governor's signature and all of the other hundreds of people to write your legislation and get it in order.

How are you going to do this by yourself?

I think what we need more than anything nowadays, if we're going to get back to bipartisanship-- It's okay to be a Democrat.

It's okay to be a Republican.

Nothing wrong with the party.

It's the people in the parties that's causing the problem.

If we could get some training and to say, when you go into the legislature, here's what you need to know, here's what you need to expect, here's how the process work, I think we'd have a much better legislature and bipartisanship would come back.

It just used to be natural that people work together, but no more.

Rverybody got their own idea.

It's the party platform or nothing, which doesn't serve voters well.

Everybody claims their party is better than everybody else's, but listen, a party is no more than a cardboard box.

I noticed during the course-- I was in the news business for a long time, radio business, and I found in the end that people, they listen to respond but not to hear what you're saying and understand.

That's right.

That's right.

I think that's what you were saying, we need to train people to be able to listen and see the whole picture.

-Definitely.

-Correct me if I'm wrong.

My motto is a very simple one.

Answer all your phone calls, return all of them, and don't lie to people and tell them you don't know when you don't know.

The calls you get now, what do they deal with mostly?

Everything, or is there one common theme that--?

Well, probably the biggest calls I get is mothers trying to get their sons out of trouble.

I get more of those, a volume of those, but it varies.

It's across the board.

It's from harassments, it's from people wa.. jobs and use your name for references.

The list goes on and on.

Or don't vote for that piece of legislation, vote for this one.

Of course, we get hundreds of emails from other districts.

Now, focus on the ones from my district, but I'll get emails from East Tennessee of what not to vote for, what to vote for, those type things.

It's broad.

It's very broad.

I guess it just boils down to that if you're a state representative that you need to do what's best for everybody, as much as you can.

Everybody.

Because you are a state.

I can't do it for my district if it's not good for the state, because I am a state legislator.

I try to be a statesman as much as I possibly can.

Yes, I was going to say that.

I heard this one time that we don't need more .. we don't need more Democrats or Independents.

We need more statesmen and stateswomen in those positions, right?

Yes.

Definitely.

Representative, we've come to the end of our time today, but we would like to have you back on Tennessee is Talking.

Thank you very much for stopping by.

Remember, Tennessee is Talking is on Channel 11 every Thursday night at 8.30 and again on Sunday nights at 6.30.

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